Breakfast with Pandora

ENFPs I have known

With thanks to ENFP Haven, a Yahoo group that links to BwP.

The ENFP is among my favorite MBTI types, but I must say, I admire them at a distance. Some ENFPs work very hard to be charming, flirty and irresistible. Then, when you have become a fan, they move on to the next set of potential fans. (Emphasis on the some.*) Not fun for those introverts among us who believe that when you have met one nice person, that should be your one friend, and you can spend your time reading together.

(Boh-ring! We introverts should get out more.)

Image: Detail of Botticelli's Venus found here.

Aphrodite, "lover of smiles," the ancient Greek goddess of love and beauty, is the "archetype" ENFP personality. Is it any coincidence that the links on ENFP Haven are mostly about love and relationships?

This goddess might be the most powerful of all the Olympians outside of the Fates. Her particular power is to cause all creation to fall in love, even her father Zeus, who is famous for his numerous affairs.

The Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite is a charming example of Greek mythological poetry and chock full of details about Greek divinities. It is not a hymn such as you would sing in church, but a story that would have been accompanied by music, in honor of the goddess.

The tale is told that Zeus was a bit ticked that Aphrodite was so able and willing to use her power to strike desire into others, so he found a way to make Aphrodite fall in love with a human being, Anchises, as a bit of shame and humility.

Anchises was a fine catch, however. "To look at him and the way he was shaped," sings the poet, "was like looking at the immortals." So Aphrodite gets all dolled up and seduces Anchises, who is more than willing to be seduced.

Then she tells him not to boast about his evening of love, and leaves him for her next conquest.

I sure hope he wasn't an introvert.

But Aphrodite gives Anchises a gift: a son, Aeneas, the hero of Troy who is claimed by Rome as their founder. In the Aeneid, the finest poem in the Latin language, Aphrodite turns into Venus, the Roman version of the Greek goddess, and her attitude becomes much more maternal, much more political, much more responsible. She still has that power of seduction-- and deception-- but uses it to make sure Aeneas gets what he is due from her father Jupiter.

Aphrodite is in fact perfectly happy and comfortable with her role as power broker, which doesn't jibe with the classic and/or stereotypical ENFP, the aspiring Broadway actress. Young female ENFPs radiate a vulnerability and neediness that Aphrodite only feigns. It is true that multitalented, endlessly cheerful, beautiful (inside and out) young women often come into tragedy and trauma early in their lives, but their nature is to cover over this pain with the irresistible optimism that comes so naturally to them.

So Aphrodite should be inspirational to all those ENFPs who feel less power in their lives than they should-- and a warning to all those who tend to use their seductive powers for less than wholesome purposes. Aphrodite is out for herself, which is both a good and a bad thing.

*See addendum in comments section. Thanks, Joni of ENFP_Haven.

(Inspirational quote found here, with hopes that the author will change the "frist.")

INTPs I have known

BwP gets a fair amount of traffic from web surfers interested in the Myers-Briggs personality type indicator (MBTI). Some time ago I did a whole set of posts on Greek divinities and Myers-Briggs. Myers-Briggs chatrooms are among the few places my blog is linked elsewhere on the web.

Delphi: Apollo's home.

Here is a good summary of the system. Go there and come back if you are not familiar with MBTI.

I like Myers-Briggs. Some people think it's as reliable as astrology; others consider it reductive and not reflective of the variety of human personality. I think it's true that if you stick to the basic 16 personality types not everyone is going to fit in. But if you use the "X" option, where a person straddles the line between the four basic opposites, things get extremely various. Some people believe, for example, that Jesus Christ would have tested out as XXXX.

But sometimes Myers-Briggs is dead, straight on. I was reminded of this recently when my son posted to Facebook his annual college football bowl winner predictions. There are 35 bowl games, and he spent a large number of hours analyzing each matchup, then crafted capsule summaries of his analysis with a predicted winner for each game. I don't doubt he will be very accurate with his predictions. He got no remuneration out of this process (his mother pointed out the pro journalist at Sports Illustrated only disagreed with him in 5 games). He did it for its own sake.

This type of behavior is totally characteristic of the INTP, or Apollo in my mythological typology. INTPs are often extremely gifted intellectually. They have a singular ability to concentrate. Their intellectual output is detailed and finely considered. They live to analyze, deduce and explain. Sports statistics are male INTPs' Garden of Eden.

Reading through my son's predictions, I was immediately reminded of another INTP I knew very long ago, about whom I once posted. Ted was a precocious sports journalist, and when he was 13, in the 8th grade, he wrote an analysis of a college football game between the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of Southern California that was published in the student newspaper at Cal. He predicted the Trojans would win, but as well we know, all the logical analysis goes out once the chaos of life intrudes. Berkeley won, behind the heroics of quarterback Joe Roth and running back Chuck Muncie.

Ted and I went on to write at student newspapers throughout high school, and as he went off to college I thought he would be a broadcaster some day, one of my predictions that did not come true. Recently my son has expressed an interest in broadcasting. Last year he was the play-by-play announcer for his high school's Powder Puff football game. He was brilliant, in my humble opinion.

Apollo is often seen as the perfection of Greek manhood, the eternally shining youth. This is a fiction of 19th century romantics. Apollo was an excellent athlete (another INTP, Tiger Woods, is an example of the extreme athletic potential of INTPs), but he is mainly a geek-- interested in such complex and theoretical arts as music, poetry, medicine, and prophecy (e.g. bowl game predictions).

This is the INTP. Yes, a reductive way of classifying the variousness of human beings. But useful for those of us "N" types who love to see the big picture.

Myers-Briggs and Greek mythology the last: The perfect couple

The INFJ and ENFJ types in Myers-Briggs do not describe the personality of any major god or goddess of whom I am aware.

Both the INFJ and the ENFJ are characterized by a strong commitment to compassion, doing the right thing, and serving others. The INFJ is often considered to be the perfect type for a member of the clergy. The ENFJ can be bossy (like my stepmother, who is a classic ENFJ), but he or she is motivated by a desire for justice, especially for those in need. The ENFJ is perfect as the CEO of a nonprofit.

So the Greek divinities, who reflect for the Greeks the capricious nature of reality, did not include in their number a classic pastor-leader, the champion do-gooder.

But there is a human couple that to me fit the bill: Odysseus (ENFJ) and Penelope (INFJ), the husband-wife team from Homer's Odyssey.

The personality of Odysseus is somewhat malleable in Greek mythology: in the Iliad he is a shrewd negotiator, strategist, and opportunist, and in Sophocles' Ajax, a Greek tragic drama, he comes off as wily but wimpy.

But in the Odyssey he is portrayed as having a tender heart, especially for getting home to his family again. In the beginning of the story, he seems to have a shell of bravado; he has bought into the Iliadic "Heroic Ideal" that glory is the most important thing in the world. But gradually-- this is his spiritual journey-- he returns to his spiritual roots as a family man.

But even for his men he has a deep compassion. Witness the moment he has to choose between Scylla and Charybdis: Charybdis is an engulfing whirlpool that will suck O. and his ships down to the bottom of the sea. Scylla is a dog-headed monster. If O. goes near her, he will lose six men to her six dog heads.

Odysseus shows real pain in having to make the decision to lose his men, and he tries all he can-- stands with drawn sword-- to see if he can defeat the monster. This is impressive compassion to me.

So Odysseus is a leader (E), a strategist (N), a compassionate person (F), and, moreover, a finisher of his journey (J).

Penelope shows a similar amount of intelligence and strategy: she is called by Homer periphron, which means in Greek "round-about minded," or "the one who has 360 degree perception." Or as Richmond Lattimore puts it, she is "circumspect," meaning prudent and shrewd, but also "looking" (spect) in a "circle" (circum).

Penelope is totally committed to Odysseus despite knowing that after 20 years away from her, he has to have met his end somehow. She has great feeling, as does Odysseus, for their only son Telemachus.

And Penelope is shy. Part of this is the typical Greek expectation that women must stay in their room, spinning wool into yarn. But she does not take charge as someone like Medea would (maybe you can guess her MB type), and when Telemachus grows into a man he orders her around.

Penelope is definitely an introvert, but she also longs for justice like Odysseus. She does not have the confidence to drive away the suitors who are laying waste to her house, but she secretly wants them taken care of. When Odysseus returns, a forceful presence returns also, and those suitors are toast, with Penelope's help, of course.

The INFJ and ENFJ can be the perfect couple, if they work together for a common goal. Penelope and Odysseus are among the very few married couples in Greek mythology who are true soulmates.

Here is a fascinating link concerning MB type relationships (beware, psychobabble ahead).

Which Greek god is your Myers-Briggs type? - III

When will it end? We've done 10 types, and there are still six to go. Well, here's the deal: there are two personality types that don't fit any Olympian divinity, partly because there are only 14 or so main Olympian divinities, and partly because the two types, INFJ and ENFJ, are the most humane and mature of the 16 (not to say bossy, but who's picky?), and we all know that Greek gods and goddesses are hardly humane and mature.

Photo: Carolina spring sky, back in the day when it used to rain regularly.

So, four divinities today, and then two human characters another day.

Dionysus, ESFP: The ESFP loves new experiences and would prefer that life be a "continual party." As god of wine and drunkenness, this describes Dionysus well. The ESFP is also sometimes considered a slacker or a dizzy blonde, and Dionysus often gives the impression of being sleepy, gentle, and clueless. This is true until he decides to wake up and punish those who do not worship him. Consider Pentheus, the uptight ruler of Thebes who was torn limb from limb by his own relatives as a punishment for attempting to kick Dionysus out of town.

The Brutally Honest Myers-Briggs test calls the ESFP a Clown, and this quotation sounds straight from Pentheus: "Get down to earth. Find a real job and start taking care of your responsibilities."

Aphrodite, ENFP: How many women have you known, guys, who seem to come on to you incredibly strong, almost as if you're the only guy for them in the world, and then you turn around and she's giving the same routine to someone else? That is the ENFP, the incredibly vivacious, sexy, captivating and capricious ENFP. ENFP's are often actors and actresses who thrive on being worshipped, who love to have an entourage, who can lift one little finger and have 10 members of the opposite (and same!) sex waiting on them hand and foot. Aphrodite as irresistible goddess of sex and sexuality is just that, except when she is angry, at which time she becomes extremely scary. Ask Helen in Iliad Book III (search site for "obstinate girl").

The brutally honest Myers-Briggs test says the ENFP is a "Scumbag," mainly because "[Y]ou're a cheating machine. You're just not the type of person to make long-term commitments." Very true of Aphrodite. She is married to Hephaestus, but doesn't let that get in the way of her enjoyment of other gods and men.

Ares, ISTP: Ares is god of berserk warfare, the god of adrenaline and bloodlust. When Ares gets into you, you will either end up dead, or with a bunch of dead people around you, or both. That's why I like the brutally honest MB test, which calls the ISTP a "Criminal": "Rules? Hah! Who needs rules? They merely prevent you from doing your own thing." And it is true that Ares follows no law but the impulse to kill, blindly and often.

On the positive side, ISTPs are adventurous, as is Ares, who is completely fearless. One analysis says that ISTP's love motorcycles, airplanes, sky diving and surfing. And even the Brutally Honest test admits that ISTP's are often good athletes. Aphrodite's main lover is Ares because he is perfect-- physically, at least.

Hermes, ENTP: I have a soft spot in my heart for ENTPs, because their motto is "What is the worst that can happen?" Come on out of your shell, you introverts, say ENTPs, and have some fun. The world is one big amusement park. ENTP's can be insensitive at times, but they have the gift of gab, sometimes dazzlingly so.

Hermes is all these things. He is happy-go-lucky and devil-may-care. He guides souls out of their shells and down to the Underworld. He is the patron of fast talkers: sales people and diplomats. He reports the words of his boss, Zeus. And on the negative side, he can also be tricky and deceiving. As one analysis reports, "ENTPs have been known to cut corners without regard to the rules if it's expedient."

The Brutally Honest test does not describe the ENTP's negative side very well. Maybe because the author himself, a witty person, is an ENTP himself.

Which Greek god is your Myers-Briggs type? - II

As this is a continuation of an earlier post, click here for an intro and the relevant links to the Myers-Briggs personality test.

This time I'll do only four divinities, since I had an email from a reader saying that my previous one with six  was something of a laborious slog.

Athena, INTJ. I admire INTJ's. They are highly intelligent and proud of their learning. They are also sure of themselves and can be know-it-alls. They are the opposite of the neurotic self-doubter. They work relentlessly for practical good. They can make excellent mentors and-- hey, wait a minute. The goddess Athena is all these things. She turns theory into practice. As mistress of the cash economy (olive oil, textiles) and military strategy, and inspirer of heroes, Athena uses her intelligence to make civilization better. Of course, if she were to read this, she would think this was all a bunch of psychobabbling hooey.

The negative INTJ is a "Crackpot."  "Ever been kissed? Ever been on a date?" [No!] says the Brutally Honest Myers-Briggs test. Check. Athena is a virgin.

Apollo, INTP. The INTP is a know-it-all who tortures himself with the possibility that he doesn't quite know it all or totally measure up. He is an absent-minded professor with a neurotic streak. He is logical boy strikes again. Apollo is the master of many intellectual and theoretical arts-- music, mathematics, prophecy, medical diagnosis (which is a kind of prophecy), and religious purification. He is not so concerned as Athena with the practical world and making it better. His love life is a disaster. He never marries, and his human lovers often meet a terrible end.

The negative INTP is a "Loser," which seems strange for Apollo, apparently the Ideal of Ancient Greek Humanism and God of the Sun. But if you look at Apollo's actual myths, you find a set of mostly unhappy endings, brutality, and lonerism.

Artemis, ISFP. The major trait that Artemis shares with the ISFP is love of nature and animals. Artemis is a great protector of the wild, and a shy being who "sees much but shares little." Artemis' nature as a hunter and taker of revenge on transgressors leans away from the ISFP type, however, which does not have a need to control. Artemis thus has a kind of split personality that is more like nature-- which both protects and destroys-- than a human being.

ISFP on the negative side = Loner, with a hint perhaps of the revenge factor: "And woe and behold if it betrayed your intense values system!"

Hephaestus, INFP. The INFP's major traits are creativity and a desire for harmony in relationships. INFP's are extremely imaginative and sometimes seem to live in a world of their own creation. They are the original neurotic artist and writer type. They also hate conflict and want to maintain harmony at all costs, except when they've been pushed past their limit. Hephaestus is one of the only Greek gods who does not inflict pain and suffering on human beings. Just the opposite-- he was thrown out of heaven by Hera and smashed his leg on the ground, permanently disabling him. In the Iliad, he is the god who attempts to restore harmony by clowning.

And his inventions and creations made of metal are legendary. He creates a set of metal robots as helpers, is an crafter of exquisite metal weapons (the shield of Achilles is his handiwork), and he also creates an intricate trap with near-invisible wires that trusses up his wife Aphrodite and her lover Ares, catching them in the act of adultery. Hephaestus is less hung-up and more accomplished than the usual INFP, and good for him.

Hephaestus is not just handy, like the village blacksmith. He is a true artist, and is celebrated along with Athena as a patron of Athens, the original city of artisans and creative people.

The Brutally Honest test calls INFP's pollyannas, which makes sense for Hephaestus. Peacemakers always get a raw deal.

What Greek god is your Myers-Briggs type? - I

Some folks believe the Myers-Briggs personality test is about as insightful into human nature as one's horoscope. I know one INTJ who is convinced about that. But he would be, after all. He is an INTJ.

I use Myers-Briggs daily in my interactions with others, to understand where they are coming from, and to help me understand my strengths and limitations. Some think it reductionistic to classify everyone in 16 different types. But there is a lot of room for variation, and if it doesn't work for a certain person, there's no need to worry about it.

That old meme, Which Greek God Are You, is always popular among my readers. I thought I'd do a different kind of semi-meme: What Greek god is your Myers-Briggs type? This isn't to show you that you are like a god or goddess, but that the ancient Greeks--especially Homer-- gave divinity human personality.

Besides, you wouldn't like to be most of the Greek divinities. Their bad behavior falls in line with this Myers-Briggs "Brutally Honest" meme, which tells you the bad side of your type. As an INFP, for example, I'm a pollyanna (Thanks to MoominLight for the original link).

If you want a reader-friendly introduction to this test, go here.

For the rest of us, we begin with the older Olympians, the children of the Titans. In another post I will put in the younger Olympians, who are all children of Zeus.

Zeus: ENTJ. The "larger-than-life" natural leader who enjoys putting his theories into practice. A human ENTJ may sometimes be considered dictatorial, abrasive, or impersonal; for Zeus this is just business as usual. One description of an ENTJ says that his "trademark" statement is "I'm sorry you have to die," which sounds a lot like what must have happened with Semele, the mother of Dionysus. Zeus had fallen in love with her and promised her anything (ENTJ's often have "strong affections and sentimental streaks"). Hera, Zeus' jealous wife, came to Semele as an old lady and encouraged her to ask Zeus to reveal himself in his true form. His "true form" was a lightning bolt, but Zeus could not go back on his word. Zap. So sad you have to die.

Here's ENTJ in a negative form, accurate for Zeus, I think.

Hera: ISTJ The ISTJ is a dutiful person who, when she thinks she is not appreciated, will fly into sudden rages. Hera, as goddess of marriage, is also mistress of tradition and the way it's always been done. The ISTJ also seems cold, aloof, and unemotional, which could explain why Zeus feels he has to always go elsewhere for his female companionship. Hera's revenge on Zeus' lovers correlate with the ISTJ's conviction that the rules should not be broken. Read Iliad Book 14 for a wonderful scene of Hera getting herself sexed up for a seduction of Zeus that is really about getting justice for her Greeks.

The negative ISTJ is called a "Borefest."

Demeter ESFJ This is the natural mother type, and according to some explanations of the Myers-Briggs test can be highly manipulative. They are rescuers and stand by their children, but also can put on guilt trips and fly into rages. Demeter's personality for me is best seen in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, where she attempts to retrieve her daughter Persephone, but then gets sidetracked and attempts to make a human child immortal by tempering him in the hearth fire. When the child's mother expresses grief and horror at the sight, Demeter demands worship. Whoa, mom.

The negative ESFJ emphasizes their softer ("Sap") side: "Turn off the waterworks, woman!" But ESFJ's do have hard edges. In the Homeric Hymn, Demeter wins over Zeus.

Hades ESTJ: Hades is often called the Chthonic ("Earthbound") Zeus, and the ESTJ is a leader like an ENTJ, but much more bound by tradition, much more interested in hanging with the group. Hades' main job is to enforce the rules of the Underworld Country Club, whose members include All The Dead People In the World. Hades is not at all like the villainous character in the Disney movie Hercules. He is much more boring than that. He only gets mad when he doesn't get what's coming to him. One might think that Hades was being wild and crazy when he stole Persephone away to make her his bride in the Underworld. But it wasn't that much of a departure for him: after all, he asked Zeus first.

The negative ESTJ profile calls an ESTJ "bland, inflexible, offensive , and no fun at all... like a bag of salt lacking potato chips, a year past its expiry date."

Poseidon ESTP: The ESTP is a doer-- an active person who can't sit still. Poseidon is the god of horses, earthquakes, rivers, and the sea. He is often depicted riding the waves on his chariot. He is the creator of the horse. He is also the one who attempted to drown Odysseus because O. hurt his son Polyphemus, the Cyclops.

ESTP on the negative side: "Perhaps if you calmed down a little, people wouldn't be so scared of you."

Hestia ISFJ: Hestia is the goddess of the hearth, and as such is seen but not heard. The ISFJ is the most invisible of the personality types, often called a "doormat" because of her desire to serve. Hestia is a perpetual virgin dedicated to the service of the home. As such, there are no stories about her except that she refused the sexual advances of many gods.

The negative ISFJ is called "Pushover."